I'm Italian born and bred, I left the "Bel Paese" 20 years ago, and have never gone back. I don't miss it at all, don't miss anything of it at all. I never felt at home there.
I felt at home in Russia (my first trip dates back to 1982), even though I found many things exasperating, nay, downright infuriating, and I knew too well how privileged I was as a tourist. But there was something beguiling about the place. I don't know if I'd like to live in Russia, but I miss it. It's weird how a place can make us feel.
I love this article, and Virna Lisi's photos are great, thank you, BB!
Thank you Portia and what fascinating life experience and perspective!
For me, there’s something hard to pin about the Italy (I’ve only explored the North, Rome the farthest South I’ve been), that rhymes with my Russianness. I feel a quiet understanding and ease with it when I’m there, a respect. From the way they can pronounce our names to the way there is a wordless understanding about some things in conversation.
I feel perhaps it’s a more general Southern thing - does not have to end with an aperitivo, could be apero, vinho verde, mate. Intuitively I feel this is somewhere I could be happy.
I don’t dwell on it, to not be a sado-masochist, but there is a still a little dream about прекрасная Россия будущего in the back of my head, and me on the first plane back.
I now live in the Netherlands, close to Amsterdam, in the small town where czar Peter the Great learnt the art of naval carpentry. It makes me feel closer to Piter, the city I dream to visit again, where I'd love to spend some months, at least.
As for the Southern thing, you're onto something there: it isn't immediately noticeable, but I think Russians are more similar to us Southerners. I often had the chance to experience a spiritual connection between us Italians and Russians, but Spaniards and Southern Americans used to tell me they felt it too.
I know, right? I also want to see that elusive прекрасная Россия будущего, I want it for you and for them all. Do you think we could manifest it, if we want it strongly enough?😉
Have you ever been to Pereslavl-Zalessky, where he built his first “practice” boats, before he went to Holland to learn their techniques? It’s a special little place, with character.
I feel this strongly with Southerners as well, even if we Russians are broodier and darker on the surface, there is some common filling inside.
Про прекрасную Россию будущего, I feel like if I focus on it too much, it leaves me no emotional fuel to go about daily, current life, because the feeling is too strong if I let myself feel it. Right now I guess I’m processing the realisation that half my life has been lived and I am coming to the tail end of how many more years I am willing to compromise before I choose something with my heart, not my brain.
Hi BB, I haven't been to Pereslavl-Zalessky yet, but we could take a tour of the Russky Shtandart, a replica of the very first Russian ship, here in Zaandam. The ship used to sail around Europe, before the "special military operation", and it was a popular attraction.
You're still young, there's a lot of life ahead of you. You'll make the right decision when the time is right. I hope you and your family will be able to see and live in a new Russia (but with all the good from the old one).
The most depressing thing I found about this is paying for tickets to get into the Pantheon. I remember just walking in and out of it. That was nice. Of course I’ve also read the Trevi Fountain is ticketed.
I think you’d like Sicily.
Is greed really the American problem? I think you’ll find that everywhere. Although the form and scope may vary. There is something else gnawing at American society, I think I’ll avoid using a harsh word that occurs to me . It’s an anti aesthetic sensibility. It’s a worship of the loud and ugly coupled with an odd fixation on virtue as a matter of lifestyle and opinion.
Whether I can explain what I’ve just written is another story.
I was also unpleasantly surprised about the Pantheon! Trevi was a zoo, but when walking past early in the morning actually almost empty.
It was shocking that you need to buy tickets in advance to a lot of places. Even with St Peter’s dome, I remember just deciding to go, queuing for maybe 15 mins and getting in. This was the only place this time which was absolutely wild - what looked like a 4 hour queue. I bought a skip the line from some shady guy, tickets are all name specific, so crossed my fingers no one would ask for ID as was Gennario.
I honestly I wouldn’t even do these tourist hotspots if I wasn’t with my child who hadn’t seen them.
Think there are still a lot of places with few people that are unforgettable. Basilica San Clemente left a big impression - three layers of history like a matreshka - first the 12th century basilica, beneath it 4-8th century frescoes and the tomb of Cyril, who created our alphabet, and a layer below a pagan temple. And you’re wondering through this alone half the time!
By greed I mean there is a constant sense of a scam with everything extremely expensive and at the same time worse (medications and medical services, food, transportation, any services done by hand like cobblers or tailoring etc). I think perhaps the anti-aesthetic is also because of this - so everything is quick, cheap and as much profit as possible.
I am always struck by how good everyone looks when I go back to Argentina. People stare at you, and you stare back, and that's totally acceptable. I always joke to my friends there that in the UK you could go out naked with just a feather in your backside and no one would say anything. Which has its advantages too of course, but it is nice to go home and feel seen again.
Argentina is one of my top next destinations! No doubt romantisized from afar, but something about the culture - the bookshops, opera! , the passions and messiness, the literature, the language - is magnetic to me.
The staring is so normal to me too, I enjoyed being back in it.
You should definitely go if you get the chance! It's a country that truly celebrates family and friendships, makes eating a ritual and a pkeasure and surprises with its arts and culture. It has its problems too, like everywhere else, but it's the place where I've felt most alive. The men are incredibly handsome too 😄
After this recommendation, tickets need to be bought asap. After what I’ve seen said and diagnosed about countries I personally experienced, I don’t believe any resume of “problems” anymore - I think it all needs to be seen and tested, and where you “feel most alive” is the most important criteria.
I was listening to a podcast with a Russian woman who moved to Buenos Aires, and her describing all the small, simple neighbourhood chess places, where her kid comes to play with elderly people and youngsters, little hole in the wall places for real people to get together, and a tumbler just switched in me, and I was telling the husband - let’s go look at Argentina!
I enjoyed being a tourist with you. I don’t live in America, but in a very casual part of Canada, and it is aesthetically underwhelming at lot of the time. Of course, people want to be “comfortable,” but you can be both comfortable and stylish if you know how to dress yourself. Also, I don’t find ugliness comfortable, but that’s me. We have a lot of ugly buildings too. My university campus was hideous; it is only glamorous filtered through the nostalgia of youth. Of course it does also get very cold here. And the natural world is incredibly beautiful, no contest. So you can kinda ignore the buildings.
I think I would love Italy from your description. It’s interesting that you describe people fitting in with their surroundings. This is how it should be, however that wasn’t necessarily my impression in the urban parts of England and Scotland when I lived there. The architecture might be beautiful but the people’s attitude and behaviour was not. When I was most grumpy (it was a challenging part of my life, albeit an adventure) the mental image I formed was of zoo animals in fancy cages. Unfair, maybe. But I also really didn’t want to feel that way. I wanted Europe (what I saw of it) to be more civilized than I was. Ultimately I concluded it wasn’t.
I like that you present a different impression here. Probably closer to Greece, where I was much happier.
I think I can relate - in the US I have tried to focus of the natural beauty and vastness, which is incredible. Unfortunately, I often find it not enough in daily life, which feels barren. I really miss clean, safe cities with great public transport, walking, historical buildings, cafes, theaters etc.
I think my elation about Italy and the Mediterranean in general is obviously part tourism - when you have money, time, and no Sisyphean hurdles to overcome. From what I understand from friends and relatives living there, it boils down to what you value in life. For me personally, I think history and beauty outweigh functionality and barren-ness, even with more money, in the end.
Very interesting about England and Scotland - I’ve never been, but always wanted to go to Scotland, because that’s the type of nature I like, and Edinburgh looks like a beautiful place. I think perhaps to Slavs (and maybe Southern Europe/Latin America) there might be a certain soullessness and sterility to these societies that is too foreign to overcome.
This was an arrow to the heart, when you wrote that you wanted these countries “to be more civilized than I was. Ultimately I concluded it wasn’t” - I feel this 100%
Where are you from originally?
Regarding Greece, I’ve only been to highly touristy islands (spent a couple of months on Crete once) and it was funny and touching how everyone assumed we’re just brothers and sisters because of our common religion and the complete lack of boundaries, which was very recognisable to me and like home. My landlord had a chapel on the first floor of the building and asked me nearly everyday when I’d be baptising my several months old son. It felt like a country I could adapt to.
Hi BB, without risking too much internet anonymity, I’m from a western Canadian city, where I was born and have lived most of my life. I do feel at home here, for the most part. But I also appreciate the experiences I had in other cultures and places as they have helped me to learn what I value. While my city is new and busy and built more for cars than walking in many places, there are also a lot of opportunities to participate in interesting activities. Once I embraced my role to create the kind of culture I yearned for, with like-minded people, rather than expecting to walk into it, I found I felt more than satisfied. However, it took leaving home and experiencing the sharpness of the new to bring that into focus. Otherwise I might just have passed the time in a disgruntled way, always missing something, never quite able to define it, always feeling confined by circumstances.
I would like to return to England as a tourist, and go where I like and do what I want. It was trying to live and fit in there that was burdensome. Edinburgh is beautiful, but I was there only a short time. I loved and was deeply transformed on the other hand by my week in the Hebrides. After the dysfunctional urban cultures I encountered, I was amazed at the decency and happiness of the islanders. They became a sort of ideal I have always carried with me.
Completely agree with you that other cultures and places teach us a lot about who we were and what we want! I also think that where we were born and raised retains a psychological umbilical cord with us throughout our lives. Perhaps because I initially moved here temporarily and out of circumstance, in my mid-30s with nearly half a life lived and all consciousness-shaping experiences already having happened elsewhere, I find it hard to connect emotionally.
What I like about my Tristate area around NYC is that it is a bit of Noah’s arc, with all sorts of people, and this probably makes it much easier to function and much more interesting than if it was entirely homogenous.
People will say Europe gets to live this way because of all the defense spending America does to keep it that way, but I don't believe that for a second. I went to Europe as a 16 year old in 2015, and I remember there being something magical about it. It's HOME. There is something about the entire continent that feels magical, fantastical, like every nook and cranny has been crafted to some degree not necessarily for pleasure but for life. It felt as if I belonged there.
Not only living in the U.S. but living in one of the worst states will drag a soul down like no other. I'm progressively more and more thinking of either moving somewhere else or leaving entirely. Maybe working a "job" elsewhere is not as shit as it is in America but I kind of expect modern capitalist work to be the same no matter where I go.
There's a guy's Youtube that I stumbled on to who does dairy farm work in Slovenia. It's the quietest, most beautiful work I've ever seen, and I wish I could do that more than anything. Surrounding by nature, rolling hills, mountains in the distance, well-built local architecture, it's like living in a book.
Even Russia had this brief wondrous period - 100 years after the last such period - 2000-2020 when life was just plain good.
I didn’t understand how medical services, or veterinary services, or education could cause such paralysing anxiety, until we moved here. I think this is alien for the European continent in general.
Also, I think there is no culture of working around the clock, extremely short vacations, constantly fearing being fired and so on.
Another thing that really stands out to me is how there are no third spaces, nowhere to walk, sit or enjoy, nowhere you can go for free to just be with friends or relax. I can’t imagine how lonely and depressing it must be with babies and toddlers, stuck in the houses and cars.
There is no opportunity to launch businesses or make fortunes like in the US, but it looks like after some sort of financial foundation is in place, it’s easier to live in Europe, because it doesn’t feel like balancing on the edge of an abyss all the time.
Perhaps there are opportunities with universities? Some of my Russian friends have gotten degrees for virtually nothing (but having learned the language of the country beforehand) and have managed to then find work and stay there.
Perhaps the American conception of "work" has destroyed my ability to have a normal full-time job again, to the point where even if I had the opportunity in another nation I'm not sure I would be happy doing so. Of course compared to what I'm doing now I'd at least TRY in a heartbeat. But being stuck in an office is no different in Europe than it is in America.
All I want is for work to feel natural, like I don't have to groan about getting out of bed to do it, rush to it, or be anxious at the end of the day about having to do it again.
I think there is much more psychological separation from yourself and a job - the outlook being whatever, it’s just a job. Maybe also an incentive to look good everyday and be nicely ironed out, smell good and walk with a spring in your step. There’s definitely much less of “what do you do?” as the first thing socially - who cares.
My husband and I just got back from 2+ weeks in Italy in January. I was also struck by how beautiful the people were and how amazing (and affordable) the food was. While in Rome, we walked 8-10 miles a day and just took in all that history and beauty. It was a dream of a trip.
I'm Italian born and bred, I left the "Bel Paese" 20 years ago, and have never gone back. I don't miss it at all, don't miss anything of it at all. I never felt at home there.
I felt at home in Russia (my first trip dates back to 1982), even though I found many things exasperating, nay, downright infuriating, and I knew too well how privileged I was as a tourist. But there was something beguiling about the place. I don't know if I'd like to live in Russia, but I miss it. It's weird how a place can make us feel.
I love this article, and Virna Lisi's photos are great, thank you, BB!
Thank you Portia and what fascinating life experience and perspective!
For me, there’s something hard to pin about the Italy (I’ve only explored the North, Rome the farthest South I’ve been), that rhymes with my Russianness. I feel a quiet understanding and ease with it when I’m there, a respect. From the way they can pronounce our names to the way there is a wordless understanding about some things in conversation.
I feel perhaps it’s a more general Southern thing - does not have to end with an aperitivo, could be apero, vinho verde, mate. Intuitively I feel this is somewhere I could be happy.
I don’t dwell on it, to not be a sado-masochist, but there is a still a little dream about прекрасная Россия будущего in the back of my head, and me on the first plane back.
Where are you living now?
I now live in the Netherlands, close to Amsterdam, in the small town where czar Peter the Great learnt the art of naval carpentry. It makes me feel closer to Piter, the city I dream to visit again, where I'd love to spend some months, at least.
As for the Southern thing, you're onto something there: it isn't immediately noticeable, but I think Russians are more similar to us Southerners. I often had the chance to experience a spiritual connection between us Italians and Russians, but Spaniards and Southern Americans used to tell me they felt it too.
I know, right? I also want to see that elusive прекрасная Россия будущего, I want it for you and for them all. Do you think we could manifest it, if we want it strongly enough?😉
I know where you mean!
Have you ever been to Pereslavl-Zalessky, where he built his first “practice” boats, before he went to Holland to learn their techniques? It’s a special little place, with character.
I feel this strongly with Southerners as well, even if we Russians are broodier and darker on the surface, there is some common filling inside.
Про прекрасную Россию будущего, I feel like if I focus on it too much, it leaves me no emotional fuel to go about daily, current life, because the feeling is too strong if I let myself feel it. Right now I guess I’m processing the realisation that half my life has been lived and I am coming to the tail end of how many more years I am willing to compromise before I choose something with my heart, not my brain.
Hi BB, I haven't been to Pereslavl-Zalessky yet, but we could take a tour of the Russky Shtandart, a replica of the very first Russian ship, here in Zaandam. The ship used to sail around Europe, before the "special military operation", and it was a popular attraction.
You're still young, there's a lot of life ahead of you. You'll make the right decision when the time is right. I hope you and your family will be able to see and live in a new Russia (but with all the good from the old one).
Thank you, Portia, and I hope so too!
And thank you for writing, it really gives me hope and lights my heart to talk to people like you ❤️
The most depressing thing I found about this is paying for tickets to get into the Pantheon. I remember just walking in and out of it. That was nice. Of course I’ve also read the Trevi Fountain is ticketed.
I think you’d like Sicily.
Is greed really the American problem? I think you’ll find that everywhere. Although the form and scope may vary. There is something else gnawing at American society, I think I’ll avoid using a harsh word that occurs to me . It’s an anti aesthetic sensibility. It’s a worship of the loud and ugly coupled with an odd fixation on virtue as a matter of lifestyle and opinion.
Whether I can explain what I’ve just written is another story.
I was also unpleasantly surprised about the Pantheon! Trevi was a zoo, but when walking past early in the morning actually almost empty.
It was shocking that you need to buy tickets in advance to a lot of places. Even with St Peter’s dome, I remember just deciding to go, queuing for maybe 15 mins and getting in. This was the only place this time which was absolutely wild - what looked like a 4 hour queue. I bought a skip the line from some shady guy, tickets are all name specific, so crossed my fingers no one would ask for ID as was Gennario.
I honestly I wouldn’t even do these tourist hotspots if I wasn’t with my child who hadn’t seen them.
Think there are still a lot of places with few people that are unforgettable. Basilica San Clemente left a big impression - three layers of history like a matreshka - first the 12th century basilica, beneath it 4-8th century frescoes and the tomb of Cyril, who created our alphabet, and a layer below a pagan temple. And you’re wondering through this alone half the time!
By greed I mean there is a constant sense of a scam with everything extremely expensive and at the same time worse (medications and medical services, food, transportation, any services done by hand like cobblers or tailoring etc). I think perhaps the anti-aesthetic is also because of this - so everything is quick, cheap and as much profit as possible.
I am always struck by how good everyone looks when I go back to Argentina. People stare at you, and you stare back, and that's totally acceptable. I always joke to my friends there that in the UK you could go out naked with just a feather in your backside and no one would say anything. Which has its advantages too of course, but it is nice to go home and feel seen again.
Argentina is one of my top next destinations! No doubt romantisized from afar, but something about the culture - the bookshops, opera! , the passions and messiness, the literature, the language - is magnetic to me.
The staring is so normal to me too, I enjoyed being back in it.
You should definitely go if you get the chance! It's a country that truly celebrates family and friendships, makes eating a ritual and a pkeasure and surprises with its arts and culture. It has its problems too, like everywhere else, but it's the place where I've felt most alive. The men are incredibly handsome too 😄
After this recommendation, tickets need to be bought asap. After what I’ve seen said and diagnosed about countries I personally experienced, I don’t believe any resume of “problems” anymore - I think it all needs to be seen and tested, and where you “feel most alive” is the most important criteria.
I was listening to a podcast with a Russian woman who moved to Buenos Aires, and her describing all the small, simple neighbourhood chess places, where her kid comes to play with elderly people and youngsters, little hole in the wall places for real people to get together, and a tumbler just switched in me, and I was telling the husband - let’s go look at Argentina!
I enjoyed being a tourist with you. I don’t live in America, but in a very casual part of Canada, and it is aesthetically underwhelming at lot of the time. Of course, people want to be “comfortable,” but you can be both comfortable and stylish if you know how to dress yourself. Also, I don’t find ugliness comfortable, but that’s me. We have a lot of ugly buildings too. My university campus was hideous; it is only glamorous filtered through the nostalgia of youth. Of course it does also get very cold here. And the natural world is incredibly beautiful, no contest. So you can kinda ignore the buildings.
I think I would love Italy from your description. It’s interesting that you describe people fitting in with their surroundings. This is how it should be, however that wasn’t necessarily my impression in the urban parts of England and Scotland when I lived there. The architecture might be beautiful but the people’s attitude and behaviour was not. When I was most grumpy (it was a challenging part of my life, albeit an adventure) the mental image I formed was of zoo animals in fancy cages. Unfair, maybe. But I also really didn’t want to feel that way. I wanted Europe (what I saw of it) to be more civilized than I was. Ultimately I concluded it wasn’t.
I like that you present a different impression here. Probably closer to Greece, where I was much happier.
Thank you, Siochana!
I think I can relate - in the US I have tried to focus of the natural beauty and vastness, which is incredible. Unfortunately, I often find it not enough in daily life, which feels barren. I really miss clean, safe cities with great public transport, walking, historical buildings, cafes, theaters etc.
I think my elation about Italy and the Mediterranean in general is obviously part tourism - when you have money, time, and no Sisyphean hurdles to overcome. From what I understand from friends and relatives living there, it boils down to what you value in life. For me personally, I think history and beauty outweigh functionality and barren-ness, even with more money, in the end.
Very interesting about England and Scotland - I’ve never been, but always wanted to go to Scotland, because that’s the type of nature I like, and Edinburgh looks like a beautiful place. I think perhaps to Slavs (and maybe Southern Europe/Latin America) there might be a certain soullessness and sterility to these societies that is too foreign to overcome.
This was an arrow to the heart, when you wrote that you wanted these countries “to be more civilized than I was. Ultimately I concluded it wasn’t” - I feel this 100%
Where are you from originally?
Regarding Greece, I’ve only been to highly touristy islands (spent a couple of months on Crete once) and it was funny and touching how everyone assumed we’re just brothers and sisters because of our common religion and the complete lack of boundaries, which was very recognisable to me and like home. My landlord had a chapel on the first floor of the building and asked me nearly everyday when I’d be baptising my several months old son. It felt like a country I could adapt to.
Hi BB, without risking too much internet anonymity, I’m from a western Canadian city, where I was born and have lived most of my life. I do feel at home here, for the most part. But I also appreciate the experiences I had in other cultures and places as they have helped me to learn what I value. While my city is new and busy and built more for cars than walking in many places, there are also a lot of opportunities to participate in interesting activities. Once I embraced my role to create the kind of culture I yearned for, with like-minded people, rather than expecting to walk into it, I found I felt more than satisfied. However, it took leaving home and experiencing the sharpness of the new to bring that into focus. Otherwise I might just have passed the time in a disgruntled way, always missing something, never quite able to define it, always feeling confined by circumstances.
I would like to return to England as a tourist, and go where I like and do what I want. It was trying to live and fit in there that was burdensome. Edinburgh is beautiful, but I was there only a short time. I loved and was deeply transformed on the other hand by my week in the Hebrides. After the dysfunctional urban cultures I encountered, I was amazed at the decency and happiness of the islanders. They became a sort of ideal I have always carried with me.
Completely agree with you that other cultures and places teach us a lot about who we were and what we want! I also think that where we were born and raised retains a psychological umbilical cord with us throughout our lives. Perhaps because I initially moved here temporarily and out of circumstance, in my mid-30s with nearly half a life lived and all consciousness-shaping experiences already having happened elsewhere, I find it hard to connect emotionally.
What I like about my Tristate area around NYC is that it is a bit of Noah’s arc, with all sorts of people, and this probably makes it much easier to function and much more interesting than if it was entirely homogenous.
People will say Europe gets to live this way because of all the defense spending America does to keep it that way, but I don't believe that for a second. I went to Europe as a 16 year old in 2015, and I remember there being something magical about it. It's HOME. There is something about the entire continent that feels magical, fantastical, like every nook and cranny has been crafted to some degree not necessarily for pleasure but for life. It felt as if I belonged there.
Not only living in the U.S. but living in one of the worst states will drag a soul down like no other. I'm progressively more and more thinking of either moving somewhere else or leaving entirely. Maybe working a "job" elsewhere is not as shit as it is in America but I kind of expect modern capitalist work to be the same no matter where I go.
There's a guy's Youtube that I stumbled on to who does dairy farm work in Slovenia. It's the quietest, most beautiful work I've ever seen, and I wish I could do that more than anything. Surrounding by nature, rolling hills, mountains in the distance, well-built local architecture, it's like living in a book.
Even Russia had this brief wondrous period - 100 years after the last such period - 2000-2020 when life was just plain good.
I didn’t understand how medical services, or veterinary services, or education could cause such paralysing anxiety, until we moved here. I think this is alien for the European continent in general.
Also, I think there is no culture of working around the clock, extremely short vacations, constantly fearing being fired and so on.
Another thing that really stands out to me is how there are no third spaces, nowhere to walk, sit or enjoy, nowhere you can go for free to just be with friends or relax. I can’t imagine how lonely and depressing it must be with babies and toddlers, stuck in the houses and cars.
There is no opportunity to launch businesses or make fortunes like in the US, but it looks like after some sort of financial foundation is in place, it’s easier to live in Europe, because it doesn’t feel like balancing on the edge of an abyss all the time.
Perhaps there are opportunities with universities? Some of my Russian friends have gotten degrees for virtually nothing (but having learned the language of the country beforehand) and have managed to then find work and stay there.
Perhaps the American conception of "work" has destroyed my ability to have a normal full-time job again, to the point where even if I had the opportunity in another nation I'm not sure I would be happy doing so. Of course compared to what I'm doing now I'd at least TRY in a heartbeat. But being stuck in an office is no different in Europe than it is in America.
All I want is for work to feel natural, like I don't have to groan about getting out of bed to do it, rush to it, or be anxious at the end of the day about having to do it again.
I think there is much more psychological separation from yourself and a job - the outlook being whatever, it’s just a job. Maybe also an incentive to look good everyday and be nicely ironed out, smell good and walk with a spring in your step. There’s definitely much less of “what do you do?” as the first thing socially - who cares.
That sure would be nice.
My husband and I just got back from 2+ weeks in Italy in January. I was also struck by how beautiful the people were and how amazing (and affordable) the food was. While in Rome, we walked 8-10 miles a day and just took in all that history and beauty. It was a dream of a trip.
And what a great time to visit too! As uncrowded as it can get and still sunny and beautiful. I really, really miss walking and living on foot.